What's wrong with me? (long post, many images)

[rw16610]

I can't seem to figure it out! In the past my appreciation for other brands seemed to be greater but Rolex was always my number one.

After spending some time looking at various brands it seems to be harder than I thought to find some worth owning eventually for me personally. Rolex and Omega appear to have me won over. Some of you may remember that back in the day these REALLY did it for me:

Ulysse Nardin Maxi Marine Diver 263-33-3/95

From - watchuseek.com


From - ulysse-nardin.ch

Some of the problems with them and other lesser known high end brands are 1) It's HARD to find them up for sale be it watches or parts! On eBay under Ulysse Nardin today there was only 638 listings... Not to mention although they're FANTASTIC watches, if you decide to sell one it will be so hard to find a buyer compared to other pieces or brands. 2) A VERY limited service network. People have sent these in to Ulysse Nardin (USA) and waited literally months to get them back. None of the 4 week turnarounds like with Rolex or Omega and for some of their watches not just any watchmaker can fix or get parts for. 3) A lack of accessories and available content. For WIS's like us part of the fun is having such a rich, well know brand history to learn more about and enjoy. Not to say companies like Ulysse Nardin are not out of this world for that but they never (to my knowledge) did anything neat like send a watch to the moon or take one down to the deepest part of the Sea strapped to a submarine.

Looking at all of the major (popular / well known) brands like Patek Philippe, Audemars Piguet etc they seem to have a lot more perks for owning them. Better value retention, more people interested in them which means faster sales most likely and even pawn brokers are more likely to pay top dollar for pieces like those that they know will move quickly while making them some good money.

The bad thing about Aedumars Piguet (and even Omega sometimes) is they fact they seem to make A LOT of "limited edition" watches. There seems to be one for just about everything! My reason for even mentioning that is the fact it became known to me moments ago that Omega made a Snoopy Speedmaster:


From - fototime.com


From - watchforum.sg


From - fratellowatches.com


From - fratellowatches.com


From - fratellowatches.com


Now it does have a neat history to it, like any other Speedmaster as you can see here:

"NASA used (and still uses!) the Snoopy Award for special contributions and outstanding efforts from both individuals and companies. On October 5th 1970, NASA gave the OMEGA Speedmaster a Snoopy Award to demonstrate their recognition for the crucial role the Speedmaster had during the Apollo 13 mission."
From - fratellowatches.com


From Omega, the Speedmaster line alone seems to have a hand full of limited pieces for collectors to chose from. A watchuseek member "Omega 1120" compiled and posted a list of every Speedmaster limited edition ever produced as the discussion of "too many limited pieces" came up there and many other places too, of course:

1969
Apollo XI
A limited edition of 1,014 watches with gold cases, gold dials and rose-gold-plated movements commerates the moon landing.

1975
Apollo-Soyuz
A limited edition of 500 watches with the mission's logo on the dial, a Saturn rocket on the caseback and the words"Gemini Apollo Soyuz" was made to commemorate the Apollo-Soyuz test project.

1989
Apollo XI
Approx. 6,250 watches with engraving on the side marked the 20th Anniversary of the moon landing.

1991
MIR
Ten watches (10) with engraved case backs were made for Germany to commemorate the Mir space station. They spent three months, ending in March 1991, aboard the Mir space station.

1994
Apollo XI
A limited edition of 2,500 watches with steel cases and black dials, 500 with white-gold cases and crystal casebacks, and 50 with platinum cases, skeletonized movements and sapphire casebacks was produced for the 25th anniversary of Apollo XI. A series of 999 watches with steel cases, crystal casebacks and engraving on the sides was made for Italy.

1995
Apollo-Soyuz
Two hundred watches with gold cases and engraving on the sides were made for Italy to mark the 20th anniversary of the Apollo-Soyuz test project.

1995
Apollo XIII
A series of 999 watches was made for the 25th anniversary of Apollo III. Each watch is numbered on the caseback and has the mission's logo on the dial.

1995
MIR
The second MIR special edition comprised 28 watches in steel and 7 in gold. All 35 spent a year in orbit aboard the Mir space station.

1997
MISSION CASE
Forty carrying cases, each containing 22 different models, were made for the Speedmaster's 40th birthday. Each watch has the logo of an important U.S. space mission on the seconds subdial. Also included is a replica of the original Speedmaster from 1957 with arrowhead hour hand.

1998
REPLICA
A replica of the original Speedmaster from 1957 was produced in an unlimited steel version and in a limited edition of one-hundred fifty (150) pieces.

1998
MISSION WATCHES
All mission models in the mission carrying case were released individually except the Apollo XIII model.

1999
Apollo XI
A limited series of 9,999 watches with engraved casebacks and serial numbers was made to mark the 30th anniversary of man's first moon landing.

2000
Apollo-Soyuz
The 25th anniversary of the Apollo-Soyuz test project was commorated with 50 watches with gold cases and engraved casebacks.

2002
LAST MAN ON THE MOON
Thirty years after Apollo XVII made the last flight to the moon, 3,000 numbered watches were produced to mark the event. Each watch has an embossed mission logo on the caseback.

2003
SNOOPY AWARD
The award given by the NASA astronauts to Omega in October 1970 was commorated with a series of 5,441 numbered watches with the Snoopy Award logo on the seconds subdial and on the caseback.

2004
Apollo XI
A limited editionof 3,500 watches marked the 35th anniversary of the first moon landing. Each has a silvered dial with black counters and the date of the moon landing, a crystal caseback and a mission logo.

2004
FROM THE MOON TO MARS
This unlimited but numbered series was produced to commorate NASA's new plans for space travel. The Earth,the moon and Mars are printed on the subdials.

2005
FIRST SPACE WALK
This watch with a blue dial and a casebackwith the "Gemini 4" logo marked the 40th anniversary of the first space walk.

2006
APOLLO XV
Omega produced a series of 1,971 watches to mark the 35th anniversary of Apollo XV. Each watch has a rose-gold crown, pushers, bezel, hands and subdial rings, and a crystal caseback with mission logo.

2008
ALASKA PROJECT
Developed in 1970 but never serially manufactured, this version of the Speedmaster was developed to withstand the extreme temperatures in outer space. To mark the date, 1,970 watches were made, each with white dial and red anodized aluminum case.

2009
APOLLO XI
Forty years after the moon landing, Omega manufactured a series of 7,969 watches with steel cases and silver mission logo on the seconds subdial, and 69 watches with platinum cases and gold-colored mission logo.

2010
APOLLO-SOYUZ
35 years after the Apollo-Soyuz test project, 1,975 watches commerate the event. Each dial is made of meteorite and the watch has an embossed back depecting both spaceships.

2011
APOLLO XV
40 years after Apollo XV, 1,971 watches commerate the mission. Each watch has red, white and blue on the dial and the caseback is embossed with an image of the mission's lunar rover.


Some seem to be spread out by release date better (in my opinion) but certain ones on the list will no doubt be worth more than others. The first one of all seems like it could be one of those.


Getting closer to my point, Omega has a fantastic JFK limited edition piece of only 216 made!











Images of this watch all from watchuseek.com, posted by "jmsrolls"


Extremely limited world wide with only 216 pieces, made of 18K Gold, packaged almost like a Patek Philippe would be yet they still, like many others seem to sell for around half of MSRP ($8,250.00 USD) although dealers do not discount the limited pieces.




It amazes me how Rolex continues to produce SO many watches each year, increase prices and not make openly "limited" editions yet the demand for them makes for some of the quickest sales around and less of a financial hit if any at all if bought right and kept for a bit. Patek Philippe on the other hand does not fully supply the demand to get even greater results / success driving up the value of their pieces. So many of those you can not even just walk into an AD with a LARGE some of money and walk out with one. Although my plans are to keep my next watch it is for these reasons and a few others that will likely keep me trapped by the Rolex marketing bug with an Omega (not limited editions, but pre owned pieces) to go along with them. I think anyone else who also had a hard time selling a lesser known watch or took a bath financially doing so might just be on the same page. That vintage dealer in the UK who has the YouTube video "Tom Bolt aka the watch guru" even pointed out how many other brands can have even greater depreciation. 50% and above, which is brutal if you're a flipper or the type who may just change your mind 5 - 7 years down the road and watch something else!


Anyway, just thought I would post some findings and info that others may possibly find interesting to read

[Nicko]

A great read and quite a lot of interesting information, thanks for posting.

[rw16610]

Glad you took the time to read and enjoyed it, Steve  I found it fascinating too and these must be the factors that make Rolex so popular with many. Just wanted to correct a typing error in the original post. That JFK limited edition is actually one of 261 made total, not 216.

I guess for me it makes the most sense to treat these purchases as one would with investments. Like all of us here we buy these simply because we like them mainly but that long term investment side of things / securing the money is incredible. The same can not be said about many other hobbies out there! Most of them just drain your wallet with little to show for it after. All that matters is the enjoyment it brings the person spending their money on it but again, for me I feel fortunate to enjoy stuff that allows me to recover a large portion of my funds in the future if not more 
 

[Baco Noir]

I see your point and agree with you on the LE overkill from Omega and Panerai is suffering from this too. LE's should truly be limited and they just aren't with these brands.

As far as investments, it's hit or miss. Buying second hand, helps minimize loss or maybe make some money, yet there is not much better feeling than peeling off the new plastic / packaging and being the first to wear a new watch. Plus this way, there is no lingering question of it's service history, has it been dropped, was it stolen, etc., etc, etc.

[rw16610]

For sure, the experience of going into the AD and getting that un touched piece can certainly make it all worthwhile. Buying pre owned does present many challenges, indeed but companies like Jewelers Mutual make it even easier to collect them. All it takes is an appraisal along with some other info sent to them and the watch is covered for just about all of this.

Like with art, we buy them because we like them and the financial aspect typically takes the back seat. All of the increases though have me focused on this for the future to buy watches that give me more options long term 

[carl]

;)Well, my friend, nothing wrong with you at all. We all love watches on here, and all of our likes, dislikes and desires change over time.

I really enjoyed reading your post. That Speedy "Snoopy" is wonderful. I do agree with you, however, about the Limited Edition models that pop up all the time. Especially those that number in the thousands, maybe not that special. However, on a grand scale of population, even with thousands of the same model it would be pretty unusual to see someone with the same model. I think that we, on the forums, perceive and overabundance of these models because we are constantly being exposed to all of the updates.

That is one thing I do appreciate about Rolex (one of a number of things) is their absence of LE pieces.

Having said that, one of my favourite watches of all time is that JFK Commemorative piece. There is a wonderful history behind it, and the gift that was made to him. As far as I know, there is only one still available, and that is right here in Vancouver at the Omega Boutique. Price is now $10,600. I can never, ever find any available on a pre-owned basis. I finally ended up getting a Cartier Tank Solo gold watch, as I could buy it from Birks over 20 months with no interest. I was lucky enough to go into Birks four days before the 20 month payment option was cancelled, as they now have new owners.
If the Boutique had the same payment option, I would have the JFK model now. Don't get me wrong. I love the Cartier Tank, and it gives me a wonderful gold watch which I always wanted. The JFK Commemorative is still a dream! And it is even more beautiful in person!
Cheers
Carl

[rw16610]

Congratulations on getting the Gold Cartier, Carl!!!   I too have a soft spot for Gold watches and hope to some day have one. They told me about that when I was in Birks a few weeks back looking at the Omega watches. Sometimes it's not worth waiting any longer for! Life is too short, it makes perfect sense to enjoy owing your dream watch for as long as you possibly can. This is the good thing about dealers like Birks but they certainly are facing many changes. The guy at the AD told me sometime next year they should be getting Rolex watches (although it does show on the Rolex site that they already do). He claims that was just in the states for now apparently. Did not even know they were there and it did show this for the local dealers, so maybe the ones downtown Toronto on Bloor already have them.

It's true what you say about being on the forums and taking in all of this. Toronto as you know (just like Vancouver) is among the top cities in this country for these high end goods. Even downtown Toronto in Yorkville I notice a lot of people not even wearing watches or who have different tastes for pieces by Hublot and Audemars Piguet etc. 10,007 watches for the entire world of watch collectors / fans is not all bad. The Seamaster has much less in terms of "limited editions" but is not too far behind the Speedmaster.

Maybe it's all supply and demand for them, someone who loves these watches enough to want all or for those who did not get one:


From - watchuseek.com

This one is awesome!


From - erelyx.com

 

The JFK watch is amazing. I was shocked (or lucky) to actually see one for sale that was attainable. Had that EXACT same watch been made by Patek Philippe I guarantee you it would have cost at least $70,000.00. A steel Nautilus with no complications has an MSRP (if I recall correctly) of over $40,000.00 USD. A lot listed for sale online from trusted sellers are going in the $30,000.00's.

To each their own, I guess. And ultimately all that matters is the watch (or what ever we spend money on) makes us happy  ;-|For me that is for sure securing my investment. Selling my Omega Seamster 2220.80 that was in good condition, all boxes, cards and even the COSC certificate was SOOOOOOOOOOOO hard to sell and I ended up getting $1,800.00 CAD for it which was half of what I paid.  I enjoyed the watch and did not care about the money as much as I did the pain it was to try sell locally. When I tried selling my Rolex here a while back (not sure what I was thinking!!) it was insane! Within a day I had a solid cash offer for $300 more than I paid who was willing to meet me at the AD (Royal De Versailles on Bloor street in Toronto) the next day with cash to get it checked. After putting the link back in the bracelet, cleaning the watch etc I had to email the guy back and tell him I just couldn't do it and how sorry I was. He was very understanding. Anyway, this one is with me for life 

[hoffman]

All the watches here are of some great historical importance..especially the JFK one..looks amazing..thanks for sharing these.

[rw16610]

Sept 20, 2013 22:46:34 GMT -6 hoffman said:

All the watches here are of some great historical importance..especially the JFK one..looks amazing..thanks for sharing these.

They certainly are, I'm sure a handfull of lucky collectors that managed to get them (JFK mainly) will hold onto them for a while. Glad you enjoyed this topic.