I'm buying a vintage?

[jp]

Hi guys... I wonder if you could help me here...

There's a vintage no-date Sub for sale in the local auction. The guy says it's 20 years old.

The picture is horrible. I asked him to send more pictures but he hasn't contacted yet. I'm the 2nd highest bidder with 1200 Euros at the moment. It's about $1500 in dollars.

I know everything about risks buying online, etc. But this guy is legit and he lives in the same town. I'm gonna verify the authenticity in the AD anyway. The watch is originally bought locally as well (all the papers & receipts are intact) so it shouldn't be a problem.

How much a 20-year old no-date Sub is worth? It's working... but not serviced in a while and I predict the condition isn't great, either. Do you think it would be a good investment?

The bidding closes tomorrow so I would be appreciated if you could reply soon. Thanks.

Here's the horrendous auction pic:

[mike]

JP,that picture is pretty rough. I think I would ask for some better scans.

Now assuming it is real,and there's no major damage,I don't think $1500 is bad. A service at RSC will run in the area of $450 more if parts have to be replaced.

If you opt for a new bracelet,and I can't really tell anything from the pic that may be in the $475 range,but I'm not sure on that.

Try to get a good look at the dial and hands-that's the big thing on vintage-if they need to be replaced your looking at several hundred more and to a collector you will degrade the value of the watch.

You say it's about 20 yrs. old? I'm not sure when the switch from painted to applied markers occured but to my mind a vintage watch has painted markers(no white gold surrounds). That's me,others may feel differently.

I can't tell from the pic,but try to find out if the depth rating is over Submariner or under. Depth went under around 1979 I think. If you can get the SER# you can narrow that down.

Clifton or Hannes can give you much more info than I can. Hope I could have helped a little.

[jp]

Thanks Mike!!!!!!

Correction: The guy states that he _bought_ the watch 20 years ago from a local AD. So it could be even older. I was also thinking about those hour markers... 1985 Sub had white markers I think... Are the red ones the only Sub vintages that are valued extremely high?

Just $1500, huh? I guess the no-dates are always cheaper...

Yep, Clifton and Hannes can probably help. I wonder about these sellers... they're always so sluggish to send pics. I'll post more pics as soon as I receive them.

[mike]

I think most vintage Subs are getting expensive.

5512s 1665s for example are very desireable pieces,but as with anything condition and authenticity is everything IMO.

[clifton]

Hi JP from the looks of things, it appears to be a great find.

Any vintage Rolex sport model with box and papers is a wet dream from a collectors stand point. At 1.5k you are doing very well. However, unless you can get some better photos, I'd be cautious about going to high.

Assuming everything was perfect with the seller, the watch etc. I'd say that thing is worth any where between 2.5k and 3.5k.

Like Mike already mentioned, you do need to consider some room in your budget for service (~300 watchmaker & $500 for Rolex SC).

The biggest plus about this watch that trumps servicing is the paperwork. Finding an original watch with paperwork is like finding a four leaf clover.

Now before letting our excitement get the better of you, ask for lots of pictures and ask tons of questions about it. At $1500 this one sounds too good to be true.

Good luck and let us know how we can help.

[jp]

Thanks Clifton. I think I'll pass on this... the guy haven't sent me any pictures. I find that very bad selling ethics. I have cash ready, I'm willing to pull the trigger but I receive no reply... no answers to ANY of my questions, either.

What a putz.

I'm in a hunt for a vintage GMT Master anyway... but no-date Sub is very attractive too. Maybe I'll get a Tudor Sub... or Omega Speedy... who knows...

Thanks again.